tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5460788270738656369.post8141371519004976798..comments2023-12-24T07:02:43.274+08:00Comments on Catalogue of Organisms: Cranes Off the Rails (Taxon of the Week: Grues)Christopher Taylorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11075565866351612441noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5460788270738656369.post-10653990059810351652010-08-09T12:32:03.713+08:002010-08-09T12:32:03.713+08:00We have at least coracoids and some wing bones for...We have at least coracoids and some wing bones for eogruids but I don't know if any skull bones are available.Christopher Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11075565866351612441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5460788270738656369.post-89123588557568324032010-08-03T01:25:58.152+08:002010-08-03T01:25:58.152+08:00Is there now anything else known about Eogrus and ...Is there now anything else known about Eogrus and its allies, or do we still know only foot bones?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5460788270738656369.post-28076201166955573302009-11-05T21:06:37.247+11:002009-11-05T21:06:37.247+11:00the smaller phorusrhacids, perhaps (how much do we...<i>the smaller phorusrhacids, perhaps (how much do we know about the flight capabilities of the smaller fossil Cariamae?)</i><br /><br />Good call. Don't know the answer to that question though; any experts on Neotropical bird evolution reading this?<br /><br /><i>New Zealand (which is more "continental" than "oceanic island")</i><br /><br />If we consider New Zealand "continental", as we reasonably might, we must also consider New Guinea as such. And New Guinea has, apart from the cassowaries, at least one flightless land bird species, the New Guinea flightless rail <i>Megacrex inepta</i>. And Tasmania is arguably "continental" too, so we can add the Tasmanian native-hen <i>Gallinula mortierii</i> to the list of small-ish, flightless continental birds. (Incidentally, I hadn't forgotten about the steamer ducks, but I prefer to consider them "marine".)<br /><br />To the "almost flightless" category one could perhaps also add the hoatzin <i>Ophistocomus hoazin</i>?Dartiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5460788270738656369.post-315923474911319642009-11-05T19:43:39.478+11:002009-11-05T19:43:39.478+11:00In the large size range, there's also such bir...In the large size range, there's also such birds as phorusrhacids and various stem anseriforms such as gastornithids and dromornithids. I can think of less examples of smaller flightless continental birds - the smaller phorusrhacids, perhaps (how much do we know about the flight capabilities of the smaller fossil Cariamae?), and I mentioned in the post that messelornithids would have been weak fliers at best.<br /><br />New Zealand (which is more "continental" than "oceanic island") was home to a large number of flightless birds of all sizes despite the presence of some pretty impressive predators. But of course, the predators in question were mostly aerial (eagles, hawks, falcons, owls) which rather changes the game-plan when it comes to avoiding them.<br /><br />Tinamous and also galliforms are a bit different in that they're burst-launchers, so they still regularly use flight as an escape mechanism (indeed, I've heard that, in terms of energy release against time, burst-lauchers are <i>more</i> powerful fliers than most other birds). Tinamous are apparently notorious for their George-of-the-Jungle flight patterns. I suddenly notice that the examples you had of smaller flightless continental birds (as well as steamer ducks, which are another example that springs to mind) are water birds that would have escape into water as an alternative to escape into the air.Christopher Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11075565866351612441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5460788270738656369.post-11731751185724336132009-11-05T18:42:24.765+11:002009-11-05T18:42:24.765+11:00About the evolution of flightlessness in birds and...About the evolution of flightlessness in birds and the presence of terrestrial predators... How often during their evolutionary history has it happened that birds living on continents alongside significant terrestrial predators (i.e., excluding marine birds and birds that live on oceanic islands) have become flightless? Among extant taxa, we have the already mentioned large ratites, but there are a couple of other examples too. A few species of grebe, including the Titicaca grebe <i>Rollandia microptera</i>, and the giant coot <i>Fulica gigantea</i> are reportedly flightless. These flightless grebes and coots all live in South America by high-altitude lakes, which are admittedly a very special environment; still, potentially at least these birds share (or have shared until recently) their habitat with terrestrial mammalian predators.<br /><br />Then there are a few terrestrial bird taxa, such as the roadrunners <i>Geococcyx</i> and the tinamous, which technically aren't flightless but which in practice are very nearly so. This suggests that large body size is not necessarily a prerequisite for losing flight in terrestrial birds.<br /><br />What about the fossil record? Apart from the eogruids, are there any other suspected cases of flightlessness in small- to medium-sized, terrestrial continental birds?Dartiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5460788270738656369.post-85695000510594610342009-11-03T00:22:29.596+11:002009-11-03T00:22:29.596+11:00Himantornis has previously been regarded as the si...<i>Himantornis</i> has previously been regarded as the sister taxon to all other rails, and has been placed in its own subfamily.<br /><br />I've seen word online of an abstract presented at a recent conference of a molecular study on rails that found results consistent with the Hackett <i>et al.</i> tree - a basal division in rallids between <i>Sarothrura</i> and a few related genera on one hand, and a clade of remaining rallids (including <i>Himantornis</i>) on the other. However, the study described in the abstract has not been officially published yet (as far as I know), and the abstract didn't mention whether finfoots were included and where they turned up if they were.<br /><br /><i>Psophia</i> also lacks a reliable fossil record (a couple of scrappy fossils have been attributed to psophiids, but they're a bit doubtful) and would have an almost equally long ghost lineage considering the age of fossil aramids and gruids.Christopher Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11075565866351612441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5460788270738656369.post-28223643126956231352009-11-02T23:49:34.418+11:002009-11-02T23:49:34.418+11:00Very interesting!
By the way, didn't the Afri...Very interesting!<br /><br />By the way, didn't the African Himantornis come out as basal to all other rails and possibly deserving of its own family here and there?<br /><br />I find your suggestion of finfoots being derived rails very interesting. If so, this could partly explain their complete lack of a fossil record: they could be fairly recently evolved rather than an old, Paleocene/Eocene lineage with an impressive ghost lineage.Briannoreply@blogger.com